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as grover said himself, the pledge is to the american people, not to grover norquist. so it's not just, you know, republicans need grover norquist's approval for what they want to do. it's more that americans for tax reform wants to keep tax rates low despite the fact that legislation says they're just going to go up no matter if congress doesn't do anything. >> all right. so compromise is going to require more than finding republicans who are willing to break with the norquist anti-tax pledge. the gop wants to know what the democrats are going to be willing to give up in the form of spending cuts. >> despite the claims that the president supports a balanced approach, that democrats have yet to get serious about real spending cuts. >> jessica, the president ran and won on a promise to raise taxes. i mean what a different scenario. a year ago you and i were talking about how this election was going to be about jobs. both campaigns made exactly the same promise about job creation. so that almost got off the table. it all became about taxes. he doesn't have to run for off
as grover said himself, the pledge is to the american people, not to grover norquist. so it's not just, you know, republicans need grover norquist's approval for what they want to do. it's more that americans for tax reform wants to keep tax rates low despite the fact that legislation says they're just going to go up no matter if congress doesn't do anything. >> all right. so compromise is going to require more than finding republicans who are willing to break with the norquist anti-tax...
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have you ever spoken to grover norquist? >> yes, i have and i conveyed my feelings and he seemed to be okay with that. again, i agree with congressman cole. we need to get the economy growing to increase that revenue and i just want to remind you, too, i'm not a member of congress yet. i won't be sworn in until january 3rd, then after that point, i'll get sworn out, i'm sure. >> you're a lucky guy for the next 30 days. enjoy it. >> thanks very much for joining us. we appreciate i. representative tom cole from oklahoma and congressman elect ted yoho from florida. >>> coming up, low taxes have been an article of faith among republicans for decades, but is the gop willing to take us over the cliff just to avoid a small marginal increase for the top 2%? we'll delve into the math, next. to test the 2.0-liter turbo engine. [ engine revs ] ♪ [ derek ] 272 horsepower. the lightest in its class. the cadillac ats outmatches the bmw 3 series. i cannot believe i have ended the day not scraping some red paint off on these barriers. ♪
have you ever spoken to grover norquist? >> yes, i have and i conveyed my feelings and he seemed to be okay with that. again, i agree with congressman cole. we need to get the economy growing to increase that revenue and i just want to remind you, too, i'm not a member of congress yet. i won't be sworn in until january 3rd, then after that point, i'll get sworn out, i'm sure. >> you're a lucky guy for the next 30 days. enjoy it. >> thanks very much for joining us. we...
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think of grover norquist and the influence he has. i don't like grover norquist. i don't like jim demint, but that's what i think he's thinking. >> john, i want to go to the house of representatives. it looks like some real purging going on over there. we have a number of right wing members of the house who have been knocked off their committees. speaker boehner is exerting control. look at four republican members who were recently kicked off their committees, justin amash, huelskamp, david schweikert, and walter jones were booted from the house financial services committee. all four of these men have a history of voting against boehner and the house republican leadership. it looks like they have one thing in common, he's too right for boehner. >> i think the real problem for boehner is he's playing a risky game in the sense that people are starting to whisper that in these negotiations he actually is not being tough enough, that he should be out there saying that this president is addicted to spending. he needs an intervention, and this is the fight right now. in
think of grover norquist and the influence he has. i don't like grover norquist. i don't like jim demint, but that's what i think he's thinking. >> john, i want to go to the house of representatives. it looks like some real purging going on over there. we have a number of right wing members of the house who have been knocked off their committees. speaker boehner is exerting control. look at four republican members who were recently kicked off their committees, justin amash, huelskamp,...
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i would agree with grover norquist on this. the proposal is a nonstarter with republicans and probably most people who have looked at it. we have to get closer to this. they are both very far apart and holding their ground. that's no way to settle it. >> so all this rang lg about the fiscal cliff isn't the goal. with the president asking for $50 billion in stimulus spending, do you worry they might be losing sight of that? >> the best thing for the country is to go over the fiscal cliff. it maximizing the deficit reduction. there's no deal cut between republicans and democrats. it's not going to reduce the amount of money coming out of the deficit by a lot. so if you do that, you go back to the clinton tax rates, cut some defense and we have a short, mild recession for two quarters. we have to get serious about the deficit e. i have no belief that the congress is going to get serious about the deficit. so tom cole was right because he wants to get the republicans back in the mainstream. but the best thing the country could do i
i would agree with grover norquist on this. the proposal is a nonstarter with republicans and probably most people who have looked at it. we have to get closer to this. they are both very far apart and holding their ground. that's no way to settle it. >> so all this rang lg about the fiscal cliff isn't the goal. with the president asking for $50 billion in stimulus spending, do you worry they might be losing sight of that? >> the best thing for the country is to go over the fiscal...
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but grover norquist is smart on this. even if it's more efficient, that makes it easier to raise taxes. a tax code that gets high enough it's hurting the country because they won't allow real tax reform to support it. >> i totally agree. you end up in a situation where we on the books have a progressive system. even compared to other countries. we pay much less in taxes overall and we have much stingier-defined public goods. the point is that the most successful social welfare states are one where there's this universal pay in. the way we're going with this inequality is talking about means testing, which is a way from a model of universal pay in and benefit. that's sustainable. >> chris hayes, thank you for being here. >>> oneover the coolest things human beings has ever seen celebrates a big birthday. it's sort of a best new moment of geek and it's coming up. comes with some risk, but proven technologies allow natural gas producers to supply affordable, cleaner energy, while protecting our environment. across america, t
but grover norquist is smart on this. even if it's more efficient, that makes it easier to raise taxes. a tax code that gets high enough it's hurting the country because they won't allow real tax reform to support it. >> i totally agree. you end up in a situation where we on the books have a progressive system. even compared to other countries. we pay much less in taxes overall and we have much stingier-defined public goods. the point is that the most successful social welfare states are...
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norquist. >> they will have to go home and explain to their constituents, many middle class people why they didn't defend them, why they basically put protecting the 2% over protecting the middle class. that is not a position you want to be in at christmas time. >> luke, the democrats will have to give up something, are they not? we know look, the republicans don't have a lot of leverage here, but if they're going to take the debt ceiling off the table, there's got to be something given on medicare and social security? >> if there is to be a big deal, then one would suspect yeah, they would have to. i think there is a group of folks on both sides that realize this is a significant moment where you could actually do something big if you wanted. but the issue seems here, alex, as long as there's no movement on the 250, what really can you do? i'll throw something out there and i think it's interesting you mention tom coburn. because you're starting to see somewhat of a divide between elder senate republicans who have been in d.c., understand how the parlor games operate, as opposed to th
norquist. >> they will have to go home and explain to their constituents, many middle class people why they didn't defend them, why they basically put protecting the 2% over protecting the middle class. that is not a position you want to be in at christmas time. >> luke, the democrats will have to give up something, are they not? we know look, the republicans don't have a lot of leverage here, but if they're going to take the debt ceiling off the table, there's got to be something...
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. >> perry, this is grover norquist just a few hours ago on "meet the press." take a listen. >> every republican who had impure thoughts about maybe i could raise taxes a little because the other guys will be reasonable have to go back to the drawing board. they've just been told there are no real reforms in this budget. $1.6 trillion in tax increases and in some of the those savings are actually tax increases. >> perry, is speaker boehner's biggest problem going to be pleasing those in his own party who don't want to raise taxes, or getting the other side to cut more entitlements? >> the tax problem is the biggest problem. president obama has laid out in the past and seen willing to me, at least, to make some cuts to medicare. maybe not ones conservatives like. what we don't know yet, the big question is, president obama is pushing for $1 trillion in tax increases, pushing it for a long time. he feels he has a mandate on that now. we know his idea is about raising revenue. we don't know what the republicans ideas are on the revenue. that's what we need to know
. >> perry, this is grover norquist just a few hours ago on "meet the press." take a listen. >> every republican who had impure thoughts about maybe i could raise taxes a little because the other guys will be reasonable have to go back to the drawing board. they've just been told there are no real reforms in this budget. $1.6 trillion in tax increases and in some of the those savings are actually tax increases. >> perry, is speaker boehner's biggest problem going to...
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they've got to get through the rocky shoels of grover norquist. >> well this isn't a progress report because there's no progress to report. the phone call was pleasant, but was just more of the same. >> what do we to make of that. the rocky shoals of norquist versus stalemate. >> i think this feels to me like the theater, feels like ka bookie theater, but the story of washington once in a while in these performance is somebody knifes somebody else. i think there's -- >> no disrespect to ka bookie but sometimes it's cloak and dagger. >> and there's this fear that maybes this will go off the rails. also i think been lots and lots of hype about -- i mean the metaphor of a cliff, the need to fill cable news hours at times, i think there's times this sense that a catastrophe is about to strike. most people following it closely think it's likely to get resolved. jobs numbers matter a lot less the month after the election. tiny popularity issues are not the central factor here. it's these negotiations between two guys. >> ayman you're inside the capitol dome right now. what is the sense? we
they've got to get through the rocky shoels of grover norquist. >> well this isn't a progress report because there's no progress to report. the phone call was pleasant, but was just more of the same. >> what do we to make of that. the rocky shoals of norquist versus stalemate. >> i think this feels to me like the theater, feels like ka bookie theater, but the story of washington once in a while in these performance is somebody knifes somebody else. i think there's -- >>...
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you've called grover norquist's pledge handcuffs. are all absolute positions handcuffs for a lawmaker? >> you know what, look at what's going on right now. you have one side saying we're not doing any spending cuts. the other side saying we're not doing any tax cuts. raising taxes. it's a stalemate from the get go. again you have to look at what we're trying to accomplish. and the bigger picture is we're looking at $16.2 trillion in debt. and with either plan that we look at, whether it's mr. obama's or what's been reported on the republican side, our national debt will increase anywhere from 7.7 trillion to 9.1 trillion in the next 10 years. and that's added onto the 16.2 trillion. we need to look at the amount of debt that we've incurred. and we need to work at that to reduce that. and again, it goes back to growing an economy. >> all right. well, thank you very much. florida's congressman elect ted yoho. please next time all my alex. >> thank you. >>> in 13 days some believe the world will come to an end. we got to talk about that
you've called grover norquist's pledge handcuffs. are all absolute positions handcuffs for a lawmaker? >> you know what, look at what's going on right now. you have one side saying we're not doing any spending cuts. the other side saying we're not doing any tax cuts. raising taxes. it's a stalemate from the get go. again you have to look at what we're trying to accomplish. and the bigger picture is we're looking at $16.2 trillion in debt. and with either plan that we look at, whether it's...
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they take an allegiance to grover norquist. give me a break. the allegiance should go to the united states of america were host: is your solution? caller: i would get rid of all of them, that's what i would do, thank you. host: will leave the bear. -- we will leave it there. caller: i have two questions. everybody keeps referring to social security as an entitlement. i paid into that, it is not an entitlement, it is mine. i have not heard any comments about all the people who pay absolutely no taxes at all. i will hang up. thank you. guest: social security qualifies as an entitlement in the sense that is not an annual appropriation. this is a technical term in washington that you get back much more than you put in and you qualify for it because of certain checklists we created wendell: was put together. in that sense, it is an entitlement, not different in medicare. host: here's a quick comment from one of our viewers -- guest: they are unwilling to pull the trigger and make the investments. you can say the problem is conference but we cannot r
they take an allegiance to grover norquist. give me a break. the allegiance should go to the united states of america were host: is your solution? caller: i would get rid of all of them, that's what i would do, thank you. host: will leave the bear. -- we will leave it there. caller: i have two questions. everybody keeps referring to social security as an entitlement. i paid into that, it is not an entitlement, it is mine. i have not heard any comments about all the people who pay absolutely no...
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grover norquist also an outsider, as you mentioned. clearly that works. the other piece about scott that i think is so interesting, even though as you pointed out, he is not on my cell we are not texting, we are not calling. >> but i would be the first to get up and give credit to a republican party that thought more about how to include minority voices in leadership. it's something they have struggled with. they should do it. and policy is important too there is a whole question around civil rights. i would argue way behind. but representation matters. jay-z famously said on his most recent album, when you see me, see you. politics works the same way. you want success to be shared. you want it to be represented. and i would urge the republicans to think long and hard about how to have a leadership structure that looks more like america. >> you just dropped the mic. i love it. i love it. more from the brain trust on the other side of this break as the supreme court is about to take up same-sex marriage. it is being called a watershed moment in the fight f
grover norquist also an outsider, as you mentioned. clearly that works. the other piece about scott that i think is so interesting, even though as you pointed out, he is not on my cell we are not texting, we are not calling. >> but i would be the first to get up and give credit to a republican party that thought more about how to include minority voices in leadership. it's something they have struggled with. they should do it. and policy is important too there is a whole question around...
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everybody's focused on the pledge and grover norquist about taxes. more than half of house democrats signed a pledge saying they will not envision any reform to the social security and medicare system. that is the pledge we should be looking at. ashley: we know where you stand on this one. thank you so much for joining us. just kind of taking it down the road, not a good situation for anyone. tracy: if republicans agree to tax increases now, we know how that goes. you don't get it. all right, stocks closely watching the fiscal cliff talks. coming up, chief investment officer will tell us what will happen if there is a deal where if there is no deal. ashley: michael bloomberg crack a joke the only people buying egos. he could soon become one of those. as it everyday at this time, take a look at how oil is trading moving slightly lower even though the suggestion demand from china is off, oil down slightly by $0.10, 85.83 per barrel. tracy: it is time to make some money with charles payne. this hour he is looking at online networking site linked in. get
everybody's focused on the pledge and grover norquist about taxes. more than half of house democrats signed a pledge saying they will not envision any reform to the social security and medicare system. that is the pledge we should be looking at. ashley: we know where you stand on this one. thank you so much for joining us. just kind of taking it down the road, not a good situation for anyone. tracy: if republicans agree to tax increases now, we know how that goes. you don't get it. all right,...
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they take an allegiance to grover norquist. give me a break. the allegiance should go to the united states of america were host: is your solution? caller: i would get rid of all of them, that's what i would do, thank you. host: will leave the bear. -- we will leave it there. caller: i have two questions. everybody keeps referring to social security as an entitlement. i paid into that, it is not an entitlement, it is mine. i have not heard any comments about all the people who pay absolutely no taxes at all. i will hang up. thank you. guest: social security qualifies as an entitlement in the sense that is not an annual appropriation. this is a technical term in washington that you get back much more than you put in and you qualify for it because of certain checklists we created wendell: was put together. in that sense, it is an entitlement, not different in medicare. from one of our viewers -- guest: they are unwilling to pull the trigger and make the investments. you can say the problem is conference but we cannot read every business executives
they take an allegiance to grover norquist. give me a break. the allegiance should go to the united states of america were host: is your solution? caller: i would get rid of all of them, that's what i would do, thank you. host: will leave the bear. -- we will leave it there. caller: i have two questions. everybody keeps referring to social security as an entitlement. i paid into that, it is not an entitlement, it is mine. i have not heard any comments about all the people who pay absolutely no...
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bob corker, the republican in the senate said he would break the grover norquist push. he didn't talk about the tax rates. as we all know, the key is the president's and democrats insistence on the rate going up from 35 to 39n't 6%. this week, he was much more specific. he's saying to republicans, hey, cut our losses now and live to fight another day. here he is. >> has a growing group of folks looking at this and realizing we don't have a lot of cards as it relates to the tax issue. we have one house, that's it. the presidency and the senate in the democrats hands. a lot of people are putting forth a theory. i think it has merit. you go in and give the president the 2% increase that he's talking about. the rate increase on the top 2%. all of a sudden, the shift goes back to entitlements. >> what corker is also saying, what he went on to say is when we hit the debt ceiling next year, in february, then republicans are going to have the leverage then. that's something the president dispu disputed. one problem, bob corker is a senator, he's not in the house of representati
bob corker, the republican in the senate said he would break the grover norquist push. he didn't talk about the tax rates. as we all know, the key is the president's and democrats insistence on the rate going up from 35 to 39n't 6%. this week, he was much more specific. he's saying to republicans, hey, cut our losses now and live to fight another day. here he is. >> has a growing group of folks looking at this and realizing we don't have a lot of cards as it relates to the tax issue. we...
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they've got to get through the rocky shoals of grover norquist. >> right. >> and all those folks. >> and you have to get through the rocky shoals of nancy pelosi when you start talking entitlements. >> you see democrats who are, i think, talking very realistically about what needs to be done. on entitlements, i think the question isn't whether we have to do something about medicare, it's how we do something about medicare. >> so wouldn't that be -- and maybe it's naive of me to even bring this up -- but wouldn't that be important for them to take on what those are together and shoulder to shoulder? >> what i remember last summer when the president said to boehner essentially, let's lock arms and jump off the, you know, at that point it was a different kind of cliff, together. it's going to require both leaders. each is going to have to make sacrifices. in order to get this done. and i think that, you know, i think everybody recognizes the consequences of not getting it done. >> so how do you tell republicans that won't support a tax increase unless they believe entitlement reform's c
they've got to get through the rocky shoals of grover norquist. >> right. >> and all those folks. >> and you have to get through the rocky shoals of nancy pelosi when you start talking entitlements. >> you see democrats who are, i think, talking very realistically about what needs to be done. on entitlements, i think the question isn't whether we have to do something about medicare, it's how we do something about medicare. >> so wouldn't that be -- and maybe it's...
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and today grover norquist, who is against any tax increase, has an idea. if you want to know who's negotiating in good faith, put it on tv. >> it's the president who's threatening to raise taxes on the middle class if he doesn't stomp his feet and fwet his way. he should get into a room with c-span cameras there so instead of hearing rhetoric like this, let's hear it in front of c-span cameras. if the republicans being reasonable, we'll see that. if they're not, we'll see that. got to have cameras in that room. >> i personally love c-span as do cnn contributors l.z. granderson and will cain. welcome to both of you. let's start there. i would love to watch the negotiations in realtime. does mr. norquist have a dandy idea, l.z.? >> i don't think so. i really don't. i mean, how many people are watching c-span now? that's not the bash c-span. it's not as if this negotiation is going to last 45 minutes with 18 minutes of commercials. it's going to last for hours and hours and hour. i severely doubt the american people are going to sit there, they don't have tim
and today grover norquist, who is against any tax increase, has an idea. if you want to know who's negotiating in good faith, put it on tv. >> it's the president who's threatening to raise taxes on the middle class if he doesn't stomp his feet and fwet his way. he should get into a room with c-span cameras there so instead of hearing rhetoric like this, let's hear it in front of c-span cameras. if the republicans being reasonable, we'll see that. if they're not, we'll see that. got to...